The Warmongers Weigh In On Libya

The warmongers, Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), have weighed in on the situation in Libya.

The end of the Qadaffi regime in Libya is a victory for the Libyan people and for the broader cause of freedom in the Middle East and throughout the world.  This achievement was made possible first and foremost by the struggle and sacrifice of countless Libyans, whose courage and perseverance we applaud.  We also commend our British, French, and other allies, as well as our Arab partners, especially Qatar and the UAE, for their leadership in this conflict.  Americans can be proud of the role our country has played in helping to defeat Qaddafi, but we regret that this success was so long in coming due to the failure of the United States to employ the full weight of our airpower.





According to them, we should have been more active sooner.  Seriously, how many wars do we need to be fighting?  Who are we to say that democracy is the preferred mode of governing?  Our role is not to police the world, overthrowing governments that do not meet with our standards, and establishing “democratic governments” in the wake of our involvement.  We should be active in peacemaking, not warmaking.



36 thoughts on “The Warmongers Weigh In On Libya

  1. Seriously only a liberal could call John McCain a “warmonger”! A man that sat in the Hanoi Hilton for over six years! And btw way, I was attached (as a Royal Marine) to the 3rd Force American Marine Recon Company in 1968 out of Phu Bia. The American Force Recon was simply the ‘cream’!

    • I am well aware of McCain’s military service. But calling for more US military involvement…well, that makes him a warmonger.

      I mean seriously, how many wars must one country be involved in. Obviously two. Sure, let’s shoot for three, or four, or five. If that’s the case, I don’t want to hear one Republican make any statement about the national debt.

      The US is not the world’s police force.

  2. So, McCain has managed to find a way to blame the US despite a positive outcome?

    Maybe we should get into seven or eight more wars. You know, get some troops into Syria, North Korea, Iran, maybe Mexico … after all, we’re the Americans.

    The irrational hatred which the Republican Party harbors for President Obama is well beyond absurd.

  3. McCain’s war record and history as a torture victim does not give him any more wisdom when it comes to foreign policy than with Ron Paul and his veteran status. I prefer Paul’s policies, but thats beside the point. McCain and Graham are the first ones on t.v. promoting war or sactions (which are acts of war if one is faithful to the Just War tradition).

    • Rod,

      I am a Brit, but Ron Paul could not reason his way past John McCain on his best day.It is now a mute point, but McCain has more guts, and thus glory (character) than almost the whole of the American Congress! Certainly if he had become the American president, he would have worked much harder than Obama. But then I am an old conservative also. And sadly in this fallen world, war is a reality, one can only pick the better moral ground!

      • In what world is it reasonable to be at war with 5 countries?

        I would say if that is your reasoning, you are a fool. And that includes Obama and George W. Bush.

        McCain is an idiot for believing in neoconservativism and empire. It is economically unsustainable, and immoral to boot.

      • The real question here is one of survival, when will the West realize that we are at war on many fronts. From religious freedom, to social issues (and here Socialism and Communism) are still very alive! Not to mention Islam. It is sad how people use political labels to try and win just political and ideological arguments. But the problem and reality is much deeper than that. I lived in Israel for several years, so the issue really moves well above ideological pet ideas in the political. Too many Chistians (so-called) sadly only live at the level of theory and ideas, rather than real biblical and theological faith and practice. And indeed the real battle is always spiritual, and in ‘Spirit & Truth’.

  4. Pingback: Hey, GOP, The Libyans Appreciate Obama | Homebrewed Theology

  5. @Father Robert,

    The theology ismempire, Western supremacy, and neoconservativism (the one that your beloved John McCain embraces) is a false pseudotheology to begin with.

    Tell ya what, Father Robert, Id rather live in the realm of ideas and theory (even tho I do not), than to promote death and racism all around the world.

    • @Rod,

      First, McCain is “yours” not mine, I am British, though I did spend almost a year in ‘the Nam’ with the American Marine 3rd Force Recon, and was wounded there. So, I have nothing but pride and service with the American military and Special Forces, and spl. op’s. Semper Fi! With whom I also served near once again in Gulf War 1, and later other stuff somewhat too. It was and is a band of brothers!

      As to theological theory and ideas, I too like to live there, but again it must press us into the reality of the real Christian life. This is always a challenge for theology and theolog’s, etc. We can note the life of Barth here. (See the problem Barth had with his choice of allowing Charlotte von Kirschbaum to be his helper, etc. They were obviously in love, though working and sharing in their passion of theology together.) I speak of this latter, for Barth certainly was a man of his time and culture, in his treatment of Kirschbaum. She was always pretty much behind the scenes for the sake of Barth.

      Finally, nobody knows the value of life, save many of those who have seen death and dying in combat. Life is very precious and I thank the Lord everyday for the life He has given me! And one thing, no one has ever been able to call me a racist! I have Black, Hispanic, and Muslim friends also.

      • I didn’t call you a racist; I said the practice and theory of empire was. Don’t try to twist my words: It is empires that “promote death and racism all around the world.”

        Charlotte Von Kirshbaum was more than just Barth’s helper. She was his lover while he was married. Lets not try to sugarcoat history as you so often like to do.

        Lastly,human life is precious, and has immeasurable worth. That’s why war is wrong. This isnt abstract thinking, this is the very arguments that the pro-life movement puts forth itself about fetuses. So lets consider persons of color across seas as made in the image of God as well. Yes, i do believe wars are racist, in fact, once we make a group of people to be our enemy, they remain the Racial Others. The War of Terror McCain is promoting picks some bodies as less than human over others. I disagree because I believe in the Gospel of Christ, and since I believe God loves everyone and wants everyone to come to Jesus.

      • @Rod,

        We must be careful with our “learning”.. it must be tried over time! Let me know when ya get a doctorate. 😉 But even “doctorates” must be tested!

        And in my generation, we call it propriety.. as to Barth, etc. I sugar coat nothing, especially the Gospel of Christ! For GOD is certainly not going to save or regenerate everyone! I am the Reformed and Calvinist guy here! Though something Federal Vision certainly, as an Anglican! Btw, are you Barthian?

        And armchair theology must be tried in that old fire! But keep at it mate! 🙂 (And we all have something of that armchair theology!)

      • This is for Rod’s sake, but doing some historical investigation concerning Karl Barth and Charlotte von Kirschbaum, there are only guesses as to their sexual life. I grew-up in and around that generation (people..great aunts and great uncles, etc.), and believe it or not, people were not first driven by their sexual desire! Most think that Kirschbaum, who certainly loved Barth, was driven by their work together. And it is interesting to note, that when she (Kirschbaum) became ill (brain disease), and for the next ten years.. Barth’s CD came to an end!

      • The time-line for Barth and von Kirschbaum, Barth died in 1968, von Kirschbaum 1975, and Nelly, Barth’s wife.. 1976. And we should note, Nelly Barth was the one who put von Kirschbaum in the Barth family burial plot (certainly with Karl Barth’s wish & desire). Kirschbaum lived in the Barth home for 35 years (1929 to 1964/66?), until she went and lived in a nursing home, the last ten years or so of her life. As Hunsinger wrote she was a great influence on Barth’s work: “As his unique student, critic, reseacher, adviser, collaborator, assistant, spokesperson, and confidant, Charlotte von Kirschbaum was indispensable to him.”

    • @Rod,

      This is poor and realy trash mate, not even study or scholarship! Note, I am critical myself of Barth’s theology, though he certainly is a modern Church Father to my mind! I wonder if you have even read a quarter of the CD? Your negative presuppositions are reeking badly here! Sure maybe Barth was “screwing” Von Kirschbaum, is that what you want to hear & believe? But, most, and especially the scholars doubt it! We must only judge what both Barth and von Kirschbaum published together (and leave their personal and private life before God!). Btw, you might.. and I hope do, read what Barth wrote (with Kirschbaum) on the subject of biblical man & humanity. Yeah, its in the CD! (Volume III, chapter X.. Man In His Determination As The Covenant Partner of God).

  6. I especially enjoyed these 2 links:

    Father Robert,

    I would also like to go on the record and say that this conversation proves, along with other incidents with Reformed folks throughout my experience, that the Neo-reformed and neo-Calvinist movement see themselves as beyond criticism, unwilling to even undergo the slightest of sustained critiques. And thus, their “movement” will not last.

    • Rod,

      How a Christian can seriously engage someone like Deane Galbraith, and the now defunct Dunedin blog is really beyond me?!

      And I will go on record myself, and state, that Reformed Theology will continue to the eschaton! But more importantly is the quality of the Reformed Communion itself, there are several elements alive and doing well today. From Federal Calvinism, to the Federal Vision, to even a sort of new Barth and Torrance vision: called the Evangelical Calvinists, (see our friend Bobby Grow and his mate Mark Hybats -spelling?).. I disagree somewhat with the latter, but only on theological grounds. In fact, I wish them well. They are in the Reformed house! And of course there are the Barthains, which is simply Protestant loosly, from Lutheran to wherever?

      But, just what & where is the theology of Rod of Alexandria? I just certainly could not tell you? A Christian theology under construction like the rest of us I pray! 🙂

      • PS…And one of the reasons that the Reformed Communion will survive, and do well, at least spiritually, is that they are always willing to “Reform”, but Reform in only the biblical standard, in ‘Word & Spirit’! 🙂 And note, I place some Reformational Lutherans here also!

      • Of course a Christian can engage Deane Gailbraith. And dare i say the Dunedin school as well. Especially when it comes to having good senses of humor.

        Reformed theology will continue to the eschaton? I can only shake my head. I know of no Christian tradition incapable (and I am speaking of the American neo-calvinist variety, not all reformed Christians) incapable of self-criticism as they. They are just transforming the KJv onlyism into ESV onlyism, and magically they are “reformed.”

        Where is my theology? It’s closer to Eastern Orthodoxy, Wesleyanism, and the free church tradition than anything, with liberation theologies and postcolonial theories mixed in. I thought it would be obvious from my homage to Clement and Athanasius.

      • Rod,

        Yes certainly a Christian can “engage” the non-Christian positions, but he cannot have fellowship there! This is my point. Deane might be a nice pagan person, but he is not on Christian ground theologically.

        And, you forget I am a Reformed Brit and certainly most Anglican! So you cannot place me into “your” neat package of the American Reformed! Though I do like the ESV myself, but I use most all of the modern translations. As I have written, I like many of the Dutch Reformed, like G.C. Berkouwer, Geerhardus Vos, to name a few.

        And I too as an Anglican have much in common with the Orthodox, mostly Christology and the Trinity of God. I follow the Orthodox monarchy of God the Father for the most part. But as Reformed, I cannot follow them in their lack of Pauline immutation, however. And the Wesley’s, both John and Charles.. were always close to Luther and Calvin on justification. I have written theologically on this years ago. And probably before you were born? 😉

        It seems we have not been paying attention to each other there? Bloggeridius perhaps? 😉

  7. Pingback: Two Sources of Warmongering in the United States « Gratiaetnatura's Blog

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s